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Charter Revision Commission

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Meeting Minutes   June 2, 2008

East Lyme Charter Revision Commission

Members Present:        Leonard Goldberg                  Also Present:   Steve Larcen

                                    Ron Rando                                                      Gene Medley

                                    Carole H. Green                                              John Drabik

                                    Steve McCue                                                  Bob Gadbois

                                    Tony Attanasio                                               Joe Mingo

                                    Christopher Sandford                                     Walter Prochorena

                                    James Anderson

                                    Michael Foley

                                    Robert Tobin

                                    Greg Massad

Absent:            Lawrence White

            I.  Call to Order.  Chairman Goldberg called the June 2 East Lyme Charter Revision Commission Meeting to order at 7:06 p.m.

            II.  Pledge of Allegiance.  The Pledge of Allegiance was observed.

            III.  Delegations.  John Drabik stated he would like to see the budget go to automatic referendum. 

            He did not wish to change the term of office for First Selectman to four years.

            He would like to see the formation of a Police Commission.

            He did not feel a town employee should be on a board.

            IV.  Approval of Minutes for the May 19, 2008 Public Hearing.  Chairman Goldberg asked for additions, corrections or deletions to the May 19, 2008 Public Hearing Minutes.

MOTION:       Mr. Anderson moved to approve the May 19, 2008

                        Public Hearing Minutes, as presented.  Seconded

                        by Mr. Rando.  (10-0) Unanimous.

            The secretary was asked that approval of minutes for the April 17, May 5 and June 2 be placed on the next agenda.

            V.  New Business. 

                        a.  Discussion of issues raised at Public Hearing.  Chairman Goldberg felt at the Public Hearing this Commission received some interesting comments. 

                        One comment was should municipal employees be allowed to participate on boards.  Another was whether or not there should be two alternates to the Board of Finance.   The issues of  whether or not to have a Town Manager and a Facilities Manager were brought up.  Mr. Sanford observed that in minutes of past Charter Revision commissions there were many deliberations on a Town Manager.  He suggested that this Commission review them.  Mr. Sandford recommended adding suggestions made at the Public Hearing to the list of items to be considered by this Commission.

                        Mr. Goldberg stated it was suggested that Selectmen should be elected by district.

                        Mr. Sandford stated it was suggested that a Town Meeting be eliminated and that the budget merely go to Referendum.  Mr. Attanasio felt a Town Meeting may be adjourned to a Referendum.  Mr. Foley felt this may be done now by Referendum.  Mr. Sandford suggested adding an enforcement clause.

                        b.  Discussion by Commission Regarding Proposed Changes to Charter made prior to Public Hearing incorporating issues in a) 

                        Mr. Sandford asked will this Commission continue as a group or form subcommittees?  Mr. Attanasio felt this group should remain together on bigger items. 

                        Mr. Anderson felt the advantage of subcommittees is that there are many issues on some of these questions and research would be helpful.  He asked the Commission to consider which items can be eliminated, that it identify the items that need information and that a subcommittee could work on.

                        If a Facilities Manager was considered we would need to look at its costs and benefits.  Mr. Rando felt a Facilities Manager was needed so that the buildings would come under one person, and that this individual would report to the Board of Selectmen as to what needs to be taken care of.  Mr. Anderson felt it was important to check on the experience of other towns.  Ms. Green felt it was important to research the salary of a Facilities Manager.  Mr. Tobin felt it was necessary to determine whether or not this issue is appropriate for the Charter.  Mr. Attanasio suggested scheduling deliberating on different items at each meeting.  Mr. Foley felt that for some items it may be necessary to assign a subcommittee. 

                        Mr. Sandford asked if what this Commission votes on will go on the ballot?  Mr. Anderson replied we provide a draft report.  Mr. Goldberg stated the Board of Selectmen will decide what is placed on the ballot. 

                        The Commission prepared a list to be reviewed by this Commission.  (See attached list). 

                        Mr. Rando felt Esther Williams’s recommendations were important.

                        Mr. Rando felt a Police Commission should be formed.

                        Items one through four were charged to this Commission by the Board of Selectmen.       

MOTION:       Mr. McCue moved to approve the bifurcation of

                        the town budget on referendum as an item for

                        consideration by the Charter Revision Commission.

                        Seconded by Mr. Anderson.  Motion withdrawn.

                        Mr. Rando felt this item was very important.  Mr. Attanasio felt if one person wants an item on the list it should remain on the list.             Mr. Massad felt the list should be discussed and a vote should be taken on the complete list.  Mr. Goldberg stated every item on the list will remain.  Mr. Massad felt a motion should be made to accept the list and issue a recommendation on each item.  Mr. Anderson suggested eliminating some items.  Mr. Attanasio felt if there was no interest on an item it should be removed from the list.

MOTION:       Mr. Massad moved that we accept the attached list

                        of 23 items as indicated on the projector and that

                        they be matters that this Committee renders a

                        report on.  Seconded by Mr. Rando.  In Favor:

                        Rando, Green, McCue, Attanasio, Sandford,

                        Foley, Tobin and Massad.  In Opposition:

                        Anderson and Goldberg.  (8-2) Motion carried.

                        Mr. Anderson felt this Commission was obligated to report on each item.  Mr. Tobin suggested that this Commission’s final report might include footnotes that an item was discussed.

                        Mr. Goldberg felt this was an excellent list but suggested that if other excellent ideas come up that this Commission should consider them.  Mr. Tobin did not feel this motion would preclude adding items.  Mr. Massad felt that future items may be added. 

                        Mr. Anderson suggested considering future meeting dates.  Mr. Goldberg suggested meeting every two weeks.  Commission members agreed to meet on Mondays.  The following meeting dates were agreed upon:  June 16, June 30, July 14, July 28, August 11 and August 25.

                        c.  Development of agenda for next meeting.  Mr. Attanasio was asked to prepare the next agenda and assure that members had it within a reasonable period of time before the meeting.

                        Mr. Tobin suggested grouping some items, having discussion on them and making a determination on whether or not a recommendation will be made to the Board of Selectmen.

                        Mr. Anderson suggested developing a process to vote on each item to allow this Commission to quickly take action on all twenty-three items.

                        Mr. Tobin felt Roberts Rules may determine some of these items.

                        Mr. Massad suggested a consensus and vote on each issue. 

                        Mr. Tobin suggested choosing several items for consideration at the next meeting.  The public might be interested in a particular item and come to the meeting.

MOTION:       Mr. Foley moved to add to the June 16, 2008

                        Agenda Discussion of Facilities Manager and

                        Town Manager.  Seconded by Mr. Anderson.

                        (10-0) Unanimous.

                        Ms. Green felt a Facilities Manager and Town Manager may not come under the purview of this Commission.  She suggested reviewing five or six smaller items.

                        Mr. Massad stated he was not in favor of a Town Manager but supported discussing a Facilities Manager.  Mr. Anderson felt the motion stated “discussion” which does not preclude us to express our opinions. 

MOTION:       Mr. Attanasio moved to add Section 6.2.1 Board of

                        Assessment Appeals rename from Board of Tax

                        Review to the June 16, 2008 Agenda.  Seconded

                        by Mr. Anderson.  Motion withdrawn.

MOTION:       Mr. Attanasio moved to rename the Board of

                        Tax Review to Board of Assessment Appeals,

                        Under Section 6.2.1.  Seconded by Mr. Anderson.

                        (10-0) Unanimous.

MOTION:       Mr. Anderson moved that time for retention

                        of minutes Section 3.3.5 be modified as

                        recommended by the Town Clerk.  No second.

                        Motion withdrawn.

MOTION:       Mr. Anderson moved that this Commission

                        approve for revision Section 3.3.5 to read

                        that the Town Clerk shall retain ten years

                        of minutes and records for the Board of

                        Selectmen.  Seconded by Mr. Sandford.

                        Motion withdrawn.

            VI.  Old Business.  Mr. Rando reported on the Referendum vote of 28% of voters.

            VII.  Public Discussion.  Mr. Drabik suggested that items governed by state statutes be discussed with Town Attorney.  He also asked that this Commission remember this is the people’s Charter and that public hearings should be held every fourth or fifth meeting.  He did not feel Town employees should serve on the Board of Finance or Board of Selectmen, because of a conflict of interest.

            Mr. Mingo felt agendas should not be e-mailed they should be mailed at least twenty-four hours prior to the meeting and that members of the public are entitled to the same courtesy.  He also felt Roberts Rules allows the public to enter into discussion.  He did not feel a Facilities Manager should be on the list for this Commission to consider, because the Board of Education cannot be dictated to.  He also felt state statutes feel public records should be kept forever.  He questioned whether or not the Chairman may vote on issues.

            Mr. Prochorena felt this Commission needs to meet with the public.

            Mr. Gadbois felt there should be no percentage of voters for a referendum.  He felt each person’s vote should count. 

            Mr. Goldberg stated the public is invited to come to each and every meeting of this Commission.

            Mr. Drabik stated there is a difference between a public hearing and public discussion.  The last Charter Revision Commission had six public hearings, and he would like to see the same.

            VIII.    Adjournment.

MOTION:       Mr. Foley moved to adjourn the June 2, 2008

                        East Lyme Charter Revision Commission Meeting

                        at 9 p.m.  Seconded by Mr. McCue.  (10-0)
                        Unanimous.

                                                                        Respectfully submitted,

                                                                        Frances Ghersi, Recording Secretary

REGULAR MEETING MINUTES    Monday, JUNE 16th, 2008

EAST LYME CHARTER REVISION COMMISSION

Members In Attendance:          Len Goldberg, Chairman, Robert Tobin, Vice- Chairman,

                                                Tony Attanasio, Secretary, Carole Green, Mike Foley,

                                                Steve McCue, Gregory Massad, Ron Rando, Larry White,

                                                James Anderson

Also In Attendance

From the Public:                       Gene Medley, Joe Mingo, Mike Schulz, Bob Gadbois, Mike Rak

Absent:                                    Christopher Sandford, Jack Hogan, Ex-Officio, Board of Selectmen

1.     Call to Order

Chairman Goldberg called this Regular Meeting of the East Lyme Charter Revision Commission to order at 7:08 PM.

2.     Pledge of Allegiance

The Pledge was observed.

3.     Approval of Minutes from Meeting of 4/17/2008

Mr. Goldberg called for any additions or corrections to the Regular Meeting Minutes of the Charter Revision Commission on April 17, 2008.

**MOTION (1)

Mr. White moved to approve the Regular Meeting Minutes of the Charter Revision Commission on April 17, 2008 as presented.

Mr. Rando seconded the motion.

Vote:  10 – 0 – 0.  Motion passed.

4.     Approval of Minutes from Meeting of 5/5/2008

Mr. Goldberg called for any additions or corrections to the Regular Meeting Minutes of the Charter Revision Commission on May 5, 2008.

**MOTION (2)

Mr. Anderson moved to approve the Regular Meeting Minutes of the Charter Revision Commission on May 5, 2008 as presented.

Mr. Rando seconded the motion.

Vote:  10 – 0 – 0.  Motion passed.

5.     Approval of Minutes from Meeting of 6/2/2008

Mr. Goldberg called for any additions or corrections to the Regular Meeting Minutes of the Charter Revision Commission on June 2, 2008.

Mr. Anderson asked that on Page 3 after the second motion on the page; where he is speaking that the line which reads: Mr. Anderson felt this Commission was obligated to report on each item.;

is changed to read:

“Mr. Anderson said that they have a legal obligation to act on each charge of the Selectmen.”

**MOTION (3)

Mr. Anderson moved to approve the Regular Meeting Minutes of the Charter Revision Commission on June 2, 2008 as amended.

Mr. Rando seconded the motion.

Vote:  10 – 0 – 0.  Motion passed.

6.     Delegations - Comments from the Public

Mr. Goldberg called for delegations.

Bob Gadbois, 358 Boston Post Road, said that he sees the topic of the Facilities Manager on the agenda and that he would like to know what his job will be – will he take care of all of the lawns and landscaping all over the Town; all of the mowers and other equipment in the Town – or what? He said that he also sees the topic of the Town Manager on the agenda and that it has come up before and that he was against it before and is dead set against it now as you cannot vote for a Town Manager and you would not be able to get him out because he is hired rather than elected.

Mike Schulz, Lovers Lane said that they had said that they scanned some minutes from the last Charter Revision and some information from CCM and asked if this was available for the public to take a look at.

Mr. Anderson said that he would try to make it available.

Joe Mingo, 397 Boston Post Road said that he had a housekeeping item – Item 2.6 stating that the minutes would be filed within 14 days with the Town Clerk. He said that this is in conflict with the FOI rules regarding the filing of Motions only prior to that time. He said that they may want to check with the Town Clerk on what the time frame is.

7.     New Business

a.       Discussion of Town Manager and Facilities Manager from list developed at meeting of 6/2/2008

Mr. Goldberg called for discussion.

Mr. Attanasio said that he has a copy of the State Statutes regarding the Town Manager and that Section 7-98 addresses the Town Manager and it states that any Town that has a Board of Finance will have that Board nominate to the Board of Selectmen one or more person(s) for them to determine which should be the Town Manager for a period of three years. This person may be removed by notice of the Board of Finance and the Board of Finance shall fix the salary which is to be paid in monthly installments. In essence, the Board of Finance can fire the Town Manager.

Mr. Goldberg asked Ms. Green about her previous findings on the Town Manager position.

Ms. Green synopsized the overview of his duties and suggested that some research would have to be done with the Town Attorney. In 2004, she said that they stated that the Town Manager is basically a CEO and that he hires people in Town including the Tax Collector, Assessor and Town Clerk and assures the running of the Town and the continuity especially during the times where the Board of Selectmen members change due to elections.

Mr. Anderson said that he agrees with what this type of person is noting that theoretically he is like the Superintendent of the school system and not politically involved. He said that it is his opinion that at that time they were not ready for a Town Manager and that now the Town is not big enough for the Town Manager system and that it should not be changed to one.

Mr. McCue said that he knows of a Town that has had a Town Manager for some time and that the biggest objection that the people have is that they do not have input into how the Town is run.

Mr. Attanasio said that he tends to agree on the concept of responsiveness and with the adage that ‘if is it not broke – don’t fix it’. He said that he also is not in favor of a 4-year term for the First Selectman.

Mr. Foley said that he thinks that they have gone beyond their purview with this discussion and this item.

Mr. Massad suggested that they draft a resolution that the Commission has visited this item and put their findings in a report to the Board of Selectmen.

Mr. Goldberg said that it makes sense to give the Board of Selectmen a disposition on each one of the items. He asked if there was further discussion – hearing none – he asked if they were ready to make a resolution.

**MOTION (4)

Mr. Anderson resolved that the Commission visited the issue of the Charter mandating a Town Manager be hired to run the daily affairs of the Town. After due consideration, the Commission feels the issue of effectively changing the form of government is premature.

Mr. McCue seconded the motion.

Vote:  10 – 0 – 0.  Motion passed.

Mr. Goldberg called for discussion on the Facilities Manager.

Ms. Green said that they would be responsible for the maintenance and upkeep of all facilities and grounds and felt that the school system would be removed from this.

Mr. Anderson felt that it was necessary to check on how other Towns handle this. He also said that he did not feel that this is really a matter for the Charter.

Mr. Rando said that he strongly disagrees with Mr. Anderson and feels that the time has come for this person so that the Town can save money and maintain buildings and equipment.

Mr. Goldberg asked how these things are taken care of now and suggested that they might want information on that.

Mr. Tobin said that it is generally Public Works and some Parks & Recreation that handles this with the school taking care of their own. He said that the suggestion that Public Works take care of the athletic fields may not be appropriate.

Mr. Attanasio said that they should ask if this needs to be taken up by the Charter and if not – then how they would proceed on this.

Mr. Foley suggested that question is something that they should be asking for all of the items. Further, he said that his own opinion is that this does not belong in the Charter but rather with the First Selectman and the Board of Selectmen and that adding another level of management to things (which is what they would be doing here) is seldom the correct way to go.

Mr. Goldberg suggested that they might want to question the people in Town to se if they are pleased with a how the fields and roads are taken care of.

Mr. Tobin said that if they are going to get that input that it would not be coming to them but rather to other offices and that would defeat the purpose. He also suggested that they take a look at how the school handles the fields versus how Parks & Recreation does and offered that they would see a vast difference. However, the Board of Ed has its own responsibilities with respect to some of these things.

Mr. Rando said that he does not agree with that as there are a lot of things that the Board of Ed should have done in a timely manner and they did not and everyone suffered for it – he cited the Air Handlers and the window replacements that were put off.

Ms. Green noted that the previous Charter group had recommended that a task force study the issue of a Facilities Manager and that it did not happen.

Mr. Rando said that if they had a facilities manager back then, that they may not have torn down a perfectly good building as they did.

Mr. Massad said that he did not think that it is their job to tell them (the school) how to do this if it is not mandated.

Mr. Anderson said that he thinks that this is out of their purview.

Mr. Goldberg said that he looks at the Town as a ‘Company’ and that you would look for a ‘go-to person’ and that a facilities manager could be just such a person. He also said that they do not know what kind of dollars that they are talking about here as it would make a difference if it was $2M or $100M.

Ms. Green asked if they were thinking to table this until they find out what others are doing in this area.

Mr. Foley said that if this is not in their purview to create such a position then it is not relevant what others are doing, thinking or whatever.

Mr. Attanasio said that it seems that it is covered within the Charter now as it states that the Selectman can create such positions as are necessary and it would seem that Facilities Manager would fall under that.

**MOTION (5)

Ms. Green moved that the Commission visited the issue of the Charter mandating a Facilities Manager to manage the real property owned and maintained by the Town. While the Commission feels the maintenance of Town property is of utmost importance it is the Commission’s opinion that the affairs of the Town would be best served by leaving such personnel decisions to the Board of Selectmen and Board of Education rather than requiring the Town to hire a Facilities Manager by Charter.

Mr. Anderson seconded the motion.

Vote:  5 – 5 – 0.  Motion passed.

Voted in Favor of the Motion: Mr. Anderson, Mr. Attanasio, Mr. Foley, Mr. Massad, Mr. White

Voted Against the Motion:  Mr. Goldberg, Ms. Green, Mr. McCue, Mr. Rando, Mr. Tobin

Mr. Goldberg noted that the motion fails as the vote is tied. He asked if anyone would like to gather some other information on this.

Mr. Tobin said that he would look into it.

Mr. Foley suggested that this should be put to the Town Attorney as the Board of Ed is in control of its’ own buildings – and if that is not so – would combining this have any effect on their grants or other items that are related to the Board of Ed.

Mr. Goldberg said that he would inquire of the Town Attorney if there were a Facilities Manager – could they handle the infrastructure of the Board of Ed as well as the Town.   

b.      Discussion of any other items from list of Charter Revision items for consideration

Mr. Goldberg asked if there were any other items on the list that they would like to discuss or dispose of.

Mr. Anderson said that he thinks that Item 23 on the list regarding Section 8 should be wiped out completely however; they should ask the Town Attorney how to clean it up and not create confusion. Also, Item 16 and Item 23 is actually the same thing.

Mr. Foley suggested that they might want to wait to the end on that to see that they do not change any terms of office as some of this might be necessary.

Mr. Tobin suggested that they could dispose of Item 13 – the Election of Selectmen by District as while he might listen to what people had to say about it – he would vote no on it.

**MOTION (6)

Mr. Tobin moved that the Commission discussed Item 13 – The Election of Selectmen by District and recommends that it should not be considered.

Mr. Rando seconded the motion.

Vote:  10 – 0 – 0.  Motion passed.

Mr. Anderson said that they should change Item 3 to read Section 4.1.1(rather than Section 4.4.1) – Change 15 days to 30 days. He said that he would also recommend that it be revised to the 30 days.

**MOTION (7)

Mr. Anderson moved that the Commission recommends that in Section 4.1.1 that 15 days be changed to 30 days.

Mr. Attanasio seconded the motion.

Vote:  10 – 0 – 0.  Motion passed.

Mr. Rando said that he thinks that a Police Commission is something that they need and that should be put forth to the Board of Selectmen.

Mr. Anderson noted that the Board of Selectmen has the authority to do this already.

Mr. Foley suggested that they might want some professional information presented to them on this.

Mr. Goldberg agreed and Mr. Anderson said that he would be willing to look into that.

Mr. Tobin suggested that they look into Item 4 - Section 5.4 – Reword Director of Health language Review Statute

Mr. Goldberg said that he felt that would have to be put before the Town Attorney also.

Mr. Massad said that he would check on the language for the Director of Health.

c.       Development of Agenda for Meeting of 6/30/2008

Mr. Goldberg asked for suggestions for items that they would like to discuss at their next meeting.

Mr. Attanasio said that he would like to see Item 11 – Police Commission on their next agenda.

Mr. Anderson suggested that they put Item 4 – Section 5.4 – Reword Director of Health language Review statute on the agenda.

Ms. Green asked if two weeks would be too early to bring up information and discussion on the Facilities Manager again.

Mr. Goldberg said that he thought that it might be too soon.

Mr. Massad asked them – what if they found that they could not change the Board of Ed and the way that they are run and if that knowledge would change anyone’s mind who voted against this earlier – as that information would change things.

Mr. Anderson suggested that they use the Charter as a tool rather than for them to direct the Board of Selectmen on what to do as they should stick to their own business.

Mr. Rando said that they are here for more changes than this as they are here for the Town of East Lyme and what they want to see and if they are not – then they should just do the four things and go home.

Further suggestions of discussion items for the next agenda were:

¨       The charge of the Board of Selectmen – Referendum

¨       Section 2.10 – Alternates to the Board of Finance

¨       Participation of municipal employees on boards

¨       Section 3.3.1 - $1,000 limit to purchase

¨       Section 3.3.5 – Time for retention of Minutes

8.     Old Business

Mr. Goldberg asked if they could put together some CD’s of the former Charter Revision so that they could leave a copy at the Library for people to use there and with the Town Clerk.

Mr. Anderson said that he would work on that.

It was also suggested that they obtain more public input by perhaps putting a survey on the Town website; seeking free advertising in the Lyme Tymes and having a public hearing on a certain item that would generate wide interest and input such as the Police Commission.

9.     Public Discussion

Mr. Goldberg called for Public Discussion.

Mike Schulz, Lovers Lane said that he heard them mention the Board of Finance and alternates and that the State Statute already allows the Board of Finance to have three (3) alternates. He suggested that a survey form on the Town website would enable them to get public responses back to them. He also thanked them for participating in this process and noted that it was formed at the request of the public and not the Board of Selectmen so when they address the issues – they should take them as they were meant to be taken.

10.   Adjournment

**MOTION (8)

Mr. Rando moved to adjourn this Regular Meeting of the East Lyme Charter Revision Commission at 8:55 PM.

Mr. Massad seconded the motion.

Vote:  10 – 0 – 0.  Motion passed.

Respectfully submitted,

Karen Zmitruk,

Recording Secretary, Pro-tem